Answering Atheist X: The Immutable God Exists

Slavery and The Existence of an Immutably Good God

By Mike Robinson

atheism fails objective moral valuesAtheist X (AX) wrote a guest post (here) that argued Christians cannot “reconcile their belief on slavery, God’s nature, and His proclamations on slavery” within scripture. He discussed other issues and presented a few additional claims, but the heart of his essay centered on the alleged inconsistency of an immutably good God issuing laws regulating slavery.

A Defeater

There are numerous problems regarding AX’s approach. One issue he did not consider: There are Christians who do not ascribe to God all the actions and commandments issued in His name in the Old Testament. These sorts of Christians may hold to one or more of the following:

  1. The full inspiration of Scripture
  2. The infallibility of Scripture
  3. Particular notions of the inerrancy of Scripture

One who maintains such (OI) still affirms God’s immutable1 goodness while having hermeneutical commitments that reinterpret the pertinent passages or deny that the difficult passages were in the original autographs. Even though I personally reject these positions, these views provide clear defeaters for AX’s contention.

Defending Immutable and Objective Moral Values

AX’s position fails, but that does not insure that my views of God’s immutable goodness conjoined with full-orbed inerrancy are correct in contrast to the previously mentioned OI Christians.

I have argued:

  1. Objective moral values2 exist.
  2. Selected objective moral values have the attributes of being immutable and immaterial.
  3. The mutable material cosmos and humanity within lack the attributes of being immutable, and immaterial.
  4. The mutable material cosmos and humanity within cannot account for objective moral values.
  5. The triune God has the attributes of being immutable and immaterial.
  6. Therefore the existence of objective moral values furnishes grounds for knowing that the triune God exists.

How do I defend this argument against AX’s disputation?

AX contends that [5] is defeated because:

[S1] There is no morally good justification that an immutably good God could have for adjudging laws that allow Old Testament slavery.3

But this prompts the question: How could a finite, fallible man know such a contention as [S1]? AX’s position is not based on knowledge, but on his presuppositions.4 Presuppositions tend to drive people into confirmation bias (men seek out evidence that supports their worldview and ignore evidence that disconfirms it). No finite man can possibly have access to enough knowledge of the incalculable amount data that God has for justifying transitory laws. No mere human has the ontological status to justify [S1] and AX’s case against [5]. Mortal men lack the capacity to have this almost exhaustive knowledge of Old Testament history, culture, and possible actions needed to make such an assessment.

AX could not possibly provide epistemic justification that there is no possible reason God could have for justifying His dispensing laws within ancient warring cultures—laws that repel our modern sensibilities.

Worldview Interpretive Necessities

AX bases his rejection of [5] on particulars and not universals.5 All worldviews are open to charge on particular claims as well as individual assessments of specific evidence (disagreement over interpretation of particular evidence is often the case among interlocutors—while both are susceptible to confirmation bias). Apologists for a specific worldview have answers pre-formulated for particular issues, so trading brute evidence (or swapping uninterpreted facts) is not the chief means of finding truth apropos worldview analysis.

I’m asking: What are the required rational and ethical a priori conditions necessary to ground immutable universals required for intelligibility? Christian Theism offers the answers; atheism fails. Atheism is fully deficient of immutable universals required to even begin an inquiry concerning the morality of worldviews. To examine, analyze, and discern proper moral particulars, one needs a worldview that supplies immutable universals including objective moral values. Materialistic atheism believes that only the cosmos exists; the matter and motion within the universe is all there is. Does the cosmos have the capacity to ground immutable universal moral values and duties? No. The material cosmos comes up infinitely short since it is a particular mutable (changing) thing; it lacks universal reach (it is not omnipresent) and it is always in a shifting and variable flux. Thus the material cosmos as well as the matter and motion within fail to ground immutable universal moral values. Since immutable universal moral values exist, strict materialistic atheism cannot be true. 

Strict materialistic atheism lacks the ontological ability necessary to furnish a suitable foundation for objective moral values and duties. Equally, mutable humanity embedded in the cosmos is also devoid of the ontic capacity to account for immutable moral values.

Christian Theism posits things, forms, entities, norms, concepts, laws that are immutable, universal, and non-physical, but the atheistic materialist denies this at his own peril and self-stultification. Christian Theism brings with it the ability for coherence, moral law, inductive truths and all the a prior rational requirements for intelligibility.

A few Questions for AX and other Non-theists

  • Atheist X: On your principles, why is slavery, abusive servitude, or men kept in small prison cells morally wrong?
  • Is there anything immutably wrong?
  • If there is no God, this means that bad things just happen, why should anyone care? It is all physical stuff and things happen like leaves burning in a field. Within an atheist worldview, why ought we care about mere matter in the shape of a man over matter shaped like a leaf? These under your worldview are merely displacements of atoms from one form to another. If there is an ontological distinction, could you show how the presuppositions of atheism might yield such a distinction?
  • Within an atheist worldview, why should the state or individuals be required to respect a person? How does this value of humanity result from the presuppositions of atheism? Why should the state or individuals respect your opinions and even your life more than the pulling of a weed or the quashing of a bug?
  • Given an atheist worldview, how do objective immutable moral values follow?

An immutable standard (the Decalogue), grounded in the immutable character of God, allows men to delineate good and evil. And since you, like me, have sinned, how do you find pardon and eternal forgiveness? The answer is to turn from your ways and trust in Christ who died and rose from the grave. Repent, believe on Him and you will then be accepted by God; He will rinse away all your wicked deeds as you find real peace.

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  1. Immutable: Unchanging; invariant; that which cannot change; always remaining the same; not mutable; perpetually the same, unceasingly unchanging, changeless (God, the laws of logic, and moral law are immutable).
  2. Moral Value: That which is morally good or evil; the moral worth of something. It is morally good to give apple pies to all your neighbors, but it is not a moral duty to do such. Moral Absolutes: Moral truths or obligations independent of individual men, convention, culture, or society and independent of what they consider to be morally right or wrong. Moral Duty: That which is morally right or wrong; moral obligations. Universal Immutable Moral Value: That which is universally and unchangeably morally good or evil; the immutable moral worth of something that is an absolute.
  3. Selected rulings in the Torah regarding slavery were not ideal or ideally good. In the Torah, God commanded that men love their neighbors as themselves (Lev. 19:18). Old Testament slavery was much different than the general manifestation of antebellum slavery. In ancient times of almost perpetual war together with the harsh reality of daily survival, what was the state to do when a man was in so much debt that he could not repay his lender? These and similar problems required God to allow some form of fair regulations for bodily retainers and servitude. Various things permitted in the Old Testament did not automatically represent the ideal of good. Because of the hardness of men’s heart, God tolerated some things in the Old Testament that He did not commend. If this is always morally wrong, what about men retained in small cells in modern prisons? While slavery is unlawful and absolutely immoral within a Christian worldview, in ancient tribal days, the Torah provided public acknowledgment and lawful protection to those retained that was for its period progressive. Servitude and bondage regulated in the Torah were not based on race or color. Even aliens were to be treated fairly: “But the stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God” (Lev. 19:34). “You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether one of your brethren, or one of the aliens who is in your land within thy gates” (Deu. 24:14). In Matthew the Pharisees came to Jesus and asked Him: “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” Jesus told them that divorce was not in the Lord’s plan from the beginning of mankind. They then asked Christ: “Why, then, did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce and to put her away?” It was in the Torah so it must be God’s model choice. But Jesus replied: “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so” (Matthew 19:3-8).
  4. Presupposition: One’s primary rational principle. A preeminent belief held to be true and taken as a precommitment. It is the belief that is held at the most foundational level of one’s grid or web of beliefs. It is the lens through which one interprets reality; it is taken for granted and assumed in making a statement or a theory. It is one’s rational starting point; primary and fundamental assumption; and metaphysical foundation. Everyone has presuppositions—primary belief patterns that influence one’s thinking and outlook. Reason, logic, mathematics, knowledge, predication, and morality are only consistent with Christian presuppositions.
  5. Universals: A universal is something that is true or applies everywhere and at all times. Immutable laws in mathematics and logic are universals. Universals are applicable to or affecting all things, individuals, conditions, or cases; in general. Existing or prevailing everywhere, applicable or occurring throughout or relating to everything everywhere in the cosmos and outside the material cosmos. An assertion, statement or proposition that affirms or denies something about every member of a class, as in all men are mortal; a general term or concept or the type such a term signifies all of one thing, concept, or truth; a metaphysical entity taken to be the reference of a general term, as distinct from the class of individuals it describes. In general, I employ this term in reference to laws or entities that are not limited ontologically to the spatio-temporal realm; the Law of Non-contradiction and the Law of Identity are examples of universals. There are diverse meanings and applications of the term “universal,” but herein I develop the classification above.
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See the new eBook: The Sure Existence of Moral Absolutes: Proof for Christian Theism  HERE

Christianity Provides Universal Moral Values

Christianity: The Source of Universal Moral Values

By Mike Robinson

 the ten commandments decalogue

 

It is pretty hard to defend absolutist morals on ground other than religious ones (Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion).

 

Atheist Christopher Hitchens observed: Hume said, “You can’t get an ‘ought’ from an ‘is.’” I think that is true (Hitchens and Wilson Debate, WMTS).

The language … and practice of morality today is in a state of grave disorder (Philosopher of Ethics Alasdair MacIntyre, After Virtue).

This essay seeks to demonstrate that moral absolutes exist and that atheism lacks the ontological (nature of being; ontology is the study of existence or reality) grounding for moral absolutes. Atheists can know what is moral (epistemic explanation: relating to what we know); they can know right from wrong. Nonetheless, atheism lacks an objective, immutable, and perfect ontic ground to issue objective immutable moral commandments. Additionally, atheism lacks the means to hold all moral lawbreakers to an account.

A moral absolute is true and completely exceptionless. This is sometimes put by saying that a moral absolute is universalizable: it is equally binding on all people at all times… (J.P. Moreland & William L. Craig, Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview).

Many ideologies and religions offer moral edicts, but I maintain that secular, Islamic, Hindu, and naturalistic moral values are inconsistent and cannot be ultimately justified. Selected ideologies believe it is right to lie and murder in order to promote their agenda. To a consistent atheistic materialist, the concept of immaterial law is nonsensical. It doesn’t seem to make sense to argue that an immaterial objective moral value comes from a material-only world; therefore, for the consistent atheist, immaterial objective moral values do not exist. I will argue that the only consistent and righteous moral system comes from Christian theism. It is justified and it is impossible for it not to be true because Christianity supplies the necessary truth conditions for immutable moral values. Mutable materialistic atheism ultimately tumbles into moral nihilism.

God is Necessary for Objective Morality

In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point (Nietzsche).

If the conclusion of a sound argument is rejected because of sinful suppression, clearly that’s no fault of the argument (James Anderson).

 

  • Since the immutable good God with universal reach exists then immutable universal objective moral values exist.
  • The immutable good God with universal reach exists.
  • Therefore immutable universal objective moral values exist.

Below is another valid but not biblically acceptable form (it does not ontologically start with God)

  • If immutable universal objective moral values exist the immutable God with universal reach exists.
  • Immutable universal objective moral values exist.
  • The immutable God with universal reach exists.

——-

Similarly one could argue employing the following form:

  • Objective moral values exist.
  • Objective moral values have the attributes of being immutable and immaterial.
  • The mutable material cosmos and humanity within lack the attributes of being immutable, and immaterial.
  • The mutable material cosmos and humanity within cannot account for objective moral values.
  • The triune God has the attributes of being immutable and immaterial.
  • Therefore the existence of objective moral values furnishes grounds for knowing that the triune God exists.

These are valid and defendable formulations; nevertheless the issue of the ontology of moral values is not merely a matter of reasoning to God utilizing the existence of moral values. It understands that all reasoning depends and presupposes God. This includes reasoning about moral values.

Additionally, I am not asserting that non-theists do not know (epistemic concern) moral principles nor are they directly rejecting the second table of the Ten Commandments. In some ways non-theists do not have to openly affirm the first four commandments in the Decalogue to live by selected moral principles, albeit incongruously. Accordingly, I am contending that God is ontologically indispensable for the existence (ontic claim) of objective moral values. God is the ontological basis and underpinning for immutable moral values.

God is the unchanging foundation for unchanging moral values for the reason that He is the standard of good. Since He is good and perpetually the same, He is the foundation for unchanging moral values. Under non-theism mutable human beings cannot be the ground for immutable moral values. Evolving humans (evolve means change) lack the ontic capacity to provide a ground in of themselves for unchanging moral values. One cannot give what one does not have (universality and immutability).

On non-theism the best we have is a varying subjective opinion (or collection of opinions) of what some men at a particular point in time consider a moral value; possibly conjoined to a moral duty.

An Ever-in-Flux Cosmos Cannot Ground Immutable Moral Values

Moral law has to be derived from us (Christopher Hitchens, Wilson and Hitchens Debate).

If you don’t like my principles, I’ve got others (Groucho Marx).

Materialistic atheism believes that only the cosmos exists; the matter and motion within the universe is all there is. Does the cosmos have the capacity to ground immutable universal moral values and duties? No. The material cosmos comes up infinitely short since it is a particular mutable (changing) thing; it lacks universal reach (it is not omnipresent) and it is always in a shifting and variable flux. Thus the material cosmos and the matter and motion within fail to ground immutable universal moral values. Since immutable universal moral values exist, strict materialistic atheism cannot be true. Mutability eats at the non-theistic ontic base like acid.

Strict materialistic atheism lacks the ontological ability necessary to furnish a suitable foundation for objective moral values and duties. Equally, mutable humanity embedded in the cosmos is also devoid of the ontic capacity to account for immutable moral values.

Objective Moral Values and Duties Exist

First … human beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to behave in certain ways… Second … they do not in fact behave in that way. These two facts are the foundation of all clear thinking about ourselves and the universe we live in (C.S. Lewis).

Many actions are universally, objectively, and immutably wrong. Actions like killing babies for mere fun. Child sexual assault and torture for crowd enjoyment are universally and immutably wrong. These actions are unremittingly wrong since these prohibitions are based on God’s unchanging nature. Every person with a properly functioning moral sense knows that gratuitous torture and abuse is always wrong.

Moral values are grounded on God and moral duties are commands revealed by a good God in man’s conscience and in Scripture.

A moral duty is obligatory of men when the good God commands it. A moral action is permitted for people when the good God commands it or the action is derived from the general equity of a biblical command. An action is prohibited when the good God commands people not to do such an action.

Accordingly, moral obligations and prohibitions are known by the commandments of God and the application of the general equity thereof. Additionally, in a subservient manner, one’s properly functioning conscience directed by the truth of Scripture morally informs a person.

God’s commandments are not arbitrary inasmuch as they are based on and flow from God’s essentially good unchanging nature. Since God’s commands are based on His nature the truth of God’s existence is invulnerable to the Euthyphro Dilemma (this is discussed in greater detail elsewhere in this volume).

See the new eBook: The Sure Existence of Moral Absolutes: Proof for Christian Theism HERE

objective moral values

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Moral Absolutes: Contending for Biblical Theism

In 2004, Las Vegas County Commissioners and members of the community gathered to debate laws that would restrict “erotic dancers.” They decided to proscribe moderate rules for “lap dancing.” Most of the citizens and the commissioners did not sight any moral law that would prohibit such behavior. Instead, one after another sighted pragmatic reasons to support their arguments such as: Scientific research indicates sensual touching promotes good health for the human heart. One lady who spoke was an ex-stripper, and she recounted how stripping ruined her life (research has also indicated that many serial rapists and sex offenders visit strip clubs and this eventually leads them to commit heinous sexual crimes against others). Endorsement of pragmatism raises the question: By what standard does society use to discern what works best? Through lap dancing, many men will have healthier hearts; yet, many others will be injured as an indirect or direct result of this perversion.

Pragmatic Law Leads to Evil

Laws cannot be completely based on the principle of what “works best.” Pragmatism is an abstract notion and falls under its own weight. It tumbles inasmuch as the principle itself cannot be tested, studied, and found to work best. Furthermore, an absolute fixed ethical system cannot be based on what maximizes utility. The utilitarian precepts can be “Play-Doe” in the hands of righteous men or wicked men. Wicked people can decide that all manner of evil has more utility, and then pass laws based on that evil. Nazism wooed the German people in great numbers through the utilitarian application of Hitler’s ideas. The majority of the German people believed that Nazism brought happiness and great industry to their country in the late 1930’s and early 1940’s. Yet Nazism was evil. The records of the Nuremberg Trials on Nazi war crimes states: “About a million and a half people were exterminated in Madnek… over 133,000 persons were tortured and shot… Germans… exhumed and burned corpses, and crushed their bones with machines and used them for fertilizer… Nazi conspirators mercilessly destroyed even children. They killed them with their parents, in groups, and alone… they buried the living in graves, throwing them into flames… conducting experiments on them.”

Without God, nothing can supply the paradigm for universal moral absolutes. Society needs an absolute universal moral law to evaluate what is best and what is good, or it will fall into barbarism. Without God, moral choices are unclear and unintelligible. God is the only precondition for moral absolutes. The true God is inescapable. Men may try to escape His moral decrees, but without them, life can only lead to despair and pain.

Moral Law: More Than a Feeling

Supreme Court justice Stephen Bryer revealed his ultimate measure for deciding law. On November 10, 2005 on CSPAN he conceded that he knew his ruling was right by how he “feels” in his heart. The brilliant atheist Bertrand Russell admitted that he based his ethics on how he “feels.” Pol Pot felt he needed to mass-murder one million of his citizens in the killing fields; Hitler felt like murdering over 10,000 people a day and to use the skin of those murdered to make lamp shades and use their hair to make sacks. Only a moral system grounded on peremptory rational commitments to God can pronounce that mass murder is always wrong.

Ethnic Cleansing and Utilitarianism

If men are wicked with religion, what would they be without it? (Benjamin Franklin).

In claiming that the Turks were wrong in the mass genocide of one million-plus Armenians, one needs more than an ideology that establishes law based on maximum utility. The Turks thought the ethnic cleansing of the Armenians was of great benefit for most of the people in Turkey. The genocide helped the greatest number of people, as it increased and augmented the most happiness for the most people. Putting women in emotional, civil, and physical bondage, makes most Muslim men, in dozens of countries, very happy. An Associated Press article, of March 6, 2003, reported an opinion poll of the people of Russia. The poll found that 53 percent of the respondents viewed Stalin’s role (he murdered some 20 to 35 million people) in Russian history as “absolutely positive” or “more positive than negative.” Yet, only 33 percent said his role was “absolutely negative” or “more negative than positive.” And in America, the Columbine High School murderers justified their crimes using Darwinism and wearing natural selection shirts.

What if the majority of a nation voted that killing people with big noses or large feet made them most happy? What if 51 percent voted to kill the other 49 percent who had bigger noses or larger feet? Is it wrong? By the utilitarian benchmark it is lawful and good inasmuch as it benefits the most human beings. By what standard does society measure happiness and pain? If most people are not happy and feel pain because they cannot afford steak seven days a week, does society have the moral obligation to take the people out to Sizzler every night? What if the majority of people can’t afford to buy the super size meal deal at Taco Bell? Do we owe the people a big Chulupa combo with an extra-large Pepsi because this will make the most people happy? One needs an absolute moral yardstick to make law. Pragmatism and utilitarianism cannot supply this absolute standard. Philosophers fell short when they attempted to devise a obligatory criterion. The best they could come up with was the “pleasure calculus.” The laborious chart did not work because it was arbitrary and could not deliver a universal and fixed moral touchstone. God has given mankind the blessing of an absolute moral law that binds all men at all times. This gift is His commandments. The absolute moral law which all censure, prohibition, civil restraint, individual rights, approbation, and righteous jurisprudence are derived. We are to reject all moral and ethical systems that are not derived from the principles of God’s law.

see my book that contends for God’s existence utilizing moral absolutes at:

http://thelordgodexists.com/books_2.html

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